Well, I understand what she means. Maybe you haven't encountered it, but i have gotten a lot of shit for stating that I won't support an author I dislike.
No, I understand that part -- it's the rest of it I take issue with! : -) In an information age, we have to be prepared for some unpleasant discoveries. I think, if you knew people well enough, you could find a reason not to read most of them. And then what about their friends, the monster-enablers? If we don't read Roald Dahl and Dashiell Hammett was a friend of his, does that mean we shouldn't read Hammett, either? You're absolutely right, though, that everyone gets to draw their own lines and shouldn't be criticized for that -- simply because *everyone* does that.
I don't even bother anymore... It's like the religious extremists who say "don't watch Disney cartoons because they put subliminal sex scenes in them to corrupt kids!!!", "the end is near!" and all that bullshit. They see evil everywhere!(even on Disney cartoons). BUT, they can say whatever they like.
Our part is not to give attention to them. To argue with them is pointless. They will never change. If you show them facts, they will in the best scenario just ignore you, in the worse, disgrace you, censor you, point fingers at you, etc.
Ignoring them works in real life and probably online too.
Another day I saw a post where someone said Bond Girls names were sexist. Another one earlier, accused Hunger Games of being racist. Want to blame a book for racism and sexism? Start with the Bible. Want to blame an author for racism and sexism? Go for God! Want to blame people for racism and sexism? Start with the church and it's members in the past.
It came to me an idea in the works of James Randi. Something like: "I will give U$100.000,00 to anyone who came with a book, movie, music, whatever I couldn't "prove" to be sexist or racist." Just to show how stupid this is. It's like horoscope and the bible: you can "prove" everything with them.
Ps: thought to start with the american president names. George BUSH, bill CLITnton,etc :-)
I commented on that Bond Girls blog. It's easy enough to say Fleming's Bond books are sexist, but the adaptations are far, far worse. In the books, Bond is always wanting to marry the women. He may be sexist, but he's chivalrous. In the movies, they're just playthings.
Take Card for example. I stopped reading him because I read Alvin the Maker first. I found Card to be a horrific bore and refused to give him more time. Later I learned he was - in addition to being boring - homophobic and actively gives to groups that are fighting gay marriage. But I've been told time and again that I am a "bully" because I boycott Card's work. Bully??! But...isn't refusing to support someone called "voting with your wallet?"
It seems to me that a lot of people want to make books and authors exempt from the regular activities of the marketplace. I've heard:
-You can't talk about typos and SPAs. That's mean cause they're broke!
-You can't boycott an author, it's bullying!
-You can't boycott an author, it's about the book!
-You can't give that low score...
Yes, they put everything together when in fact it's separate things. People are free to boycott anything they like. Calling that "bully" is ridiculous. I will read Card and if I don't like the book I will not read more because I don't like it, not because he is homophobic. I hate homophobic but won't stop reading a good book because of that. If another one won't read because he's homophobic, that's right too. Just like he can say he won't read the book because he believes the author homophobic, the author has also rights to say what he thinks when it comes to gay marriage.
If the author can't say what he thinks in first place, how would we know about it? If a reader can't boycott it because he doesn't agree with the author where that leave us? Censorship!
It goes both ways. Both sides should be able to speak their minds and WE here on the outside should be able to see and know all this and decide for ourselves the best course of action and even express OUR own points about it.
That's just nuts. What's the good of a review if it isn't honest? You know, if someone tells me they hate an author, I don't *want* to read a review about that author's books. Wouldn't trust it. So, yeah, *please* boycott that author. And, you know what? I wouldn't mind if they tell me why, too, so I know a little bit more about where they're coming from in other reviews.
But that is the point. The author can say whatever they please - but just like the rest of us, words have consequences. They are not immune.
The point I was trying to make is that there are a lot of people trying to make readers feel bad about their personal choices. The implication is that - if you are the type who WANTS to look at where your money is going - you are a bad person.
The fact is that consumers boycott things. All types of things for all types of reasons.
Well, I think that the review is the reason for all the extra hullabaloo. It seems that today every business/author/etc wants the consumer review.
I get emails from Amazon begging me to review stuff.
I see post after post by SPAs begging for reviews. I see just as many posts by SPAs being pissy because people haven't written that golden review. So you better not boycott! That's taking money out of a "poor little author's mouth."
But then - when the book/product/service gets a bad review...well, that's the flip side of the coin. Where everyone is supposed to be nice. All the time.
So, I feel they go hand in hand. On one hand, make everyone feel bad for refusing to read a book. On the other hand, make everyone feel bad for writing a "mean review." It's all bullshit.
What I *hope* I'm starting to see is readers and reviewers taking back their power. To stop being scared of NOT reading a book. To stop being scared TO read a book...and to stop being scared to be honest. I *Hope*
We need to go back to calling reviewers "critics." That might help a few dullards understand that we aren't here to blindly promote, but to render considered opinions, which can go either way.
10 years ago
I agree with boycotting Card. I personally do. (I do admit to loving Ender's Game, but I thought the next few were beyond bad and I read these before I heard about the homophobia.) However, I generally don't feel the need to tell the world about it, as it is a personal thing.
That being said, the SPA situation has been out of hand for a while now. I support indie authors best I can. That hasn't stopped me from being labeled a bully and listed on THAT site. It pisses me off that they can say and do whatever they want over at GR and it's the readers that end up being asked to remove shelves and stuff like that. But I guess that's a whole 'nother subject.
LOL! Mine too. Go on tell me. Won't matter. I would not start disliking or reading them because of their "bad" side. Some people(a lot of them) believe that about 2000 years ago there was a man(I disagree, if he existed he wasn't a man, he just stayed here as a man for a while) who was 100% "good". The only ONE. Everyone else is a "mix" of "good" and "evil", shades of gray. Nobody's perfect!
I'm curious. Would a change to second-hand books make a difference, do you think? Me, personally, I can't afford to frequent new book stores, but I love second-hand shops.
10 years ago
I had no idea about either one of those authors. I remember reading Ten Little Indians (but I think the copy I read back then was called And Then There Were None.) That book is the one that made me a fan of hers.
I didn't know that about Poe either. Now I'm bummed.
"I don't like it when people say 'it was the times'. That is just an excuse."
Well, I don't agree with that. Who knows if 100 years from now people will look at our time and say: "What!? People discriminate people based on a book written 2100 years ago? Tell me who they were so I won't read them. Pigs!" Or something like this: "what!? people used to have pets at their home for their own self pleasure at cost of the pets freedom!? Monsters! Tell me who they are so I can't stop reading them! And don't come here saying it was the times..." It's not an excuse. It's what happened, it WAS the times. Things change(Thanks God!). People change. Society changes.
Don't get me wrong, they were wrong, we will be wrong(if any of my suppositions turn out true) BUT just call everyone pigs, blame people for the reality of the times...sorry I don't agree. They weren't the minority, they were the majority. A lot, and I mean a lot of people today, if you go back 3 or 4 generations you will find a lot of racist and sexist people on the family.
We evolved, we changed, we saw that all this was wrong. There is a lot more who needs to change.
There are some tribes here in Brazil who sacrifice just born girls in reverence for their gods. They are wrong BUT they are not cold murderers pigs, well, maybe they are but they don't KNOW that, they are not AWARE of that, for them it's just how things are.
And that's MY opinion. Hope I won't be called pig, racist, sexist, etc for pointing out my opinion. Just want to show the other side(SHOW, not justify it!).
ps: and if in the future I suggested, people decide to boycott writers from now based on my premisses, well, good for them. they have the right to do so.
I don't like to judge people's moral choices in the past using today's morality. But that's me. As is OK for me for everybody judge everyone else using whatever reasons they feel appropriate. So, I don't "hate" people, just disagree with them here and there sometimes.
I judge based on how it effects me and my reading. Racism? That's always a problem - except for Twain - and I will stop. I don't care that it used to be cool to treat humans like animals, not happening. Violence towards women & rape? No. Just no.
I'm also old enough and crotchety enough that I don't give a damn if others don't agree with me. It's my books, my time and my money.
"It's my books, my time and my money." Exactly. Companies, authors, readers, etc should respect your choices and should let you explain your reasons as why you are doing so.
Unfortunately it seems profit will always speak louder than what's right. So by boycotting we cut profits and in doing so, made companies go back and do what's right. I envy that in americans. Here in Brazil we don't have this "culture" of boycotting companies who don't respect clients. A pity.
What you do with your spouse is none of my business. Now, if you got all nasty and public with it just for shits and giggles? I'd boycott but only because I was grossed out.
Who knows... Maybe in the future monogamy will be considered "bad" and "evil" and all monogamy authors will be boycotted. LOL!
That's the thing about the future: no one knows how it will turn out.
As I said, what you do with your SO is none of my business. I only care if you are gross with it (in my face). Then I shall be grossed out and will not want to even think about you, let alone read you.
Petra, I think I may have deleted one of your comments by accident. I was trying to reply, my fingers hit something and the screen went haywire and then the comment was gone. If I did, I apologize.
10 years ago
I agree that "it was the times" is not a valid excuse. However, does that mean we should not read books by Mark Twain because they had the n word within and were about slaves? That was because "it was the times". If you see what I mean.
You sure are right about Joe Kennedy Sr. though. (I'm from MA where the Kennedys are like Gods.) But he was not a good man in my eyes. He pushed to do business with Hitler, not to mention all the illegal activities in which he was involved.
It's interesting to think about this in reverse. Even 100 years ago -- less than that -- think how many people would refuse to read the literature of today, what with all the sex and profanity and whatnot. They'd think we were all complete degenerates.
10 years ago
I see where you're coming from. I'm not afraid to say I have no idea what the Dreyfus affair is, though. :)
And it is a bit uncomfortable for me to reconcile my liking for Ender's Game with my dislike for Card.
Here in Brazil we still have second hand book shops. I'm thankful for that because I don't have money to buy new books. But I know that it won't last forever. Sadly.
Forgot them, the "nostalgic" ones who can't accept that society evolved, people and times changed and want the "old times" to come back. I don't worry about them because they can't bring back the past, it's impossible. In general, I guess the world as a whole is getting better(compared to the past). I used to go to sleep with the fear of a very plausible atomic war and death by radiation. If today that is not an impossibility at least is very, very improbable. Just one example.
That's not to say we already live in a perfect or even ideal society. There still sexism, racism, minorities discrimination, religious intolerance, all around the world. A lot still needs to change before we can say we live in an ideal or just world.
Our part is not to give attention to them. To argue with them is pointless. They will never change. If you show them facts, they will in the best scenario just ignore you, in the worse, disgrace you, censor you, point fingers at you, etc.
Ignoring them works in real life and probably online too.
Another day I saw a post where someone said Bond Girls names were sexist. Another one earlier, accused Hunger Games of being racist. Want to blame a book for racism and sexism? Start with the Bible. Want to blame an author for racism and sexism? Go for God! Want to blame people for racism and sexism? Start with the church and it's members in the past.
It came to me an idea in the works of James Randi. Something like: "I will give U$100.000,00 to anyone who came with a book, movie, music, whatever I couldn't "prove" to be sexist or racist." Just to show how stupid this is. It's like horoscope and the bible: you can "prove" everything with them.
Ps: thought to start with the american president names. George BUSH, bill CLITnton,etc :-)
Take Card for example. I stopped reading him because I read Alvin the Maker first. I found Card to be a horrific bore and refused to give him more time. Later I learned he was - in addition to being boring - homophobic and actively gives to groups that are fighting gay marriage. But I've been told time and again that I am a "bully" because I boycott Card's work. Bully??! But...isn't refusing to support someone called "voting with your wallet?"
It seems to me that a lot of people want to make books and authors exempt from the regular activities of the marketplace. I've heard:
-You can't talk about typos and SPAs. That's mean cause they're broke!
-You can't boycott an author, it's bullying!
-You can't boycott an author, it's about the book!
-You can't give that low score...
Wash, rinse, repeat.
If the author can't say what he thinks in first place, how would we know about it? If a reader can't boycott it because he doesn't agree with the author where that leave us? Censorship!
It goes both ways. Both sides should be able to speak their minds and WE here on the outside should be able to see and know all this and decide for ourselves the best course of action and even express OUR own points about it.
The point I was trying to make is that there are a lot of people trying to make readers feel bad about their personal choices. The implication is that - if you are the type who WANTS to look at where your money is going - you are a bad person.
The fact is that consumers boycott things. All types of things for all types of reasons.
I get emails from Amazon begging me to review stuff.
I see post after post by SPAs begging for reviews. I see just as many posts by SPAs being pissy because people haven't written that golden review. So you better not boycott! That's taking money out of a "poor little author's mouth."
But then - when the book/product/service gets a bad review...well, that's the flip side of the coin. Where everyone is supposed to be nice. All the time.
So, I feel they go hand in hand. On one hand, make everyone feel bad for refusing to read a book. On the other hand, make everyone feel bad for writing a "mean review." It's all bullshit.
What I *hope* I'm starting to see is readers and reviewers taking back their power. To stop being scared of NOT reading a book. To stop being scared TO read a book...and to stop being scared to be honest. I *Hope*
That being said, the SPA situation has been out of hand for a while now. I support indie authors best I can. That hasn't stopped me from being labeled a bully and listed on THAT site. It pisses me off that they can say and do whatever they want over at GR and it's the readers that end up being asked to remove shelves and stuff like that. But I guess that's a whole 'nother subject.
And you're right - the SPA situation has gotten out of hand. I think that the SPAs also caused this issue, too. Well, that plus social networking.
I didn't know that about Poe either. Now I'm bummed.
Well, I don't agree with that. Who knows if 100 years from now people will look at our time and say: "What!? People discriminate people based on a book written 2100 years ago? Tell me who they were so I won't read them. Pigs!" Or something like this: "what!? people used to have pets at their home for their own self pleasure at cost of the pets freedom!? Monsters! Tell me who they are so I can't stop reading them! And don't come here saying it was the times..." It's not an excuse. It's what happened, it WAS the times. Things change(Thanks God!). People change. Society changes.
Don't get me wrong, they were wrong, we will be wrong(if any of my suppositions turn out true) BUT just call everyone pigs, blame people for the reality of the times...sorry I don't agree. They weren't the minority, they were the majority. A lot, and I mean a lot of people today, if you go back 3 or 4 generations you will find a lot of racist and sexist people on the family.
We evolved, we changed, we saw that all this was wrong. There is a lot more who needs to change.
There are some tribes here in Brazil who sacrifice just born girls in reverence for their gods. They are wrong BUT they are not cold murderers pigs, well, maybe they are but they don't KNOW that, they are not AWARE of that, for them it's just how things are.
And that's MY opinion. Hope I won't be called pig, racist, sexist, etc for pointing out my opinion. Just want to show the other side(SHOW, not justify it!).
ps: and if in the future I suggested, people decide to boycott writers from now based on my premisses, well, good for them. they have the right to do so.
I'm also old enough and crotchety enough that I don't give a damn if others don't agree with me. It's my books, my time and my money.
Unfortunately it seems profit will always speak louder than what's right. So by boycotting we cut profits and in doing so, made companies go back and do what's right. I envy that in americans. Here in Brazil we don't have this "culture" of boycotting companies who don't respect clients. A pity.
DT for Damn That. Luckily for me I'd already gone through my Christie phase by the time I learned about her issues.
That's the thing about the future: no one knows how it will turn out.
You sure are right about Joe Kennedy Sr. though. (I'm from MA where the Kennedys are like Gods.) But he was not a good man in my eyes. He pushed to do business with Hitler, not to mention all the illegal activities in which he was involved.
And it is a bit uncomfortable for me to reconcile my liking for Ender's Game with my dislike for Card.
That's not to say we already live in a perfect or even ideal society. There still sexism, racism, minorities discrimination, religious intolerance, all around the world. A lot still needs to change before we can say we live in an ideal or just world.