hmm, yes, I think I can see where Spanish would seem close in structure to Latin. Although your example may not be the best, because of declinations: 'Roman, go home' is already imperative in English, it would never translate as 'va' (that's 'goes', always) - it would translate as 'Romano, vete a tu casa/país' or 'Romano, vaya(se) a su casa/país'.

Then case, no, Romanum eunt domus / Romani ite domum thing would not be a problem in Spanish, it simply doesn't exist - to my relief

Use of subjunctive, yes, it's more common i romance languages. In educated Spanish, which is the same as educated English, admittedly limited to was/were form (at least for British English, I'm a bit fuzzy on British/American differences) . Uneducated Spanish, or coloquial, informal Spanish will tend to simplify and often use conditional instead, just as English. Grammaticaly incorrect, sure, but people'll do it anyway. We may be losing the subjunctive, and it's a pity, but hey, language's alive and evolving :)

Yes, big fan of British highbrow humor, wordplay and its blackness. Add The Blackadder and the more contemporary Black Books to the list. Speaking of Spanish and English, the scene of Blackadder with the Infanta and the interpreter is a classic

I realized that, but I'm also only about to enter Spanish 202, which is where I will start to learn how to argue, so that should be interesting. You're right in that Spanish doesn't have gamechanger terms, although there are definitely things like accent that can create some fun experiences; one of my classmates once was doing a presentation on family and said "Mi sobrina tiene dos anos" instead of "Mi sobrina tiene dos años," and all the prof said was, "I hope she doesn't" and then explained the difference between "ano and año."

I had no idea the subjunctive is becoming less widely used; I'll have to keep an eye out for when I go to Argentina next year.

The Blackadder is on my list of shows to watch; I love Rowan Atkinson, and my husband adores him because he has a Master's in electrical engineering, which is my husband's vocation.

I also hope she doesn't :D

By the by, the tilde is not an accent in Spanish, as it doesn't accentuate anything: the ñ is another letter, at least in Royal Academy Spanish, as are the 'll' and the 'ch' - they wanted to go for a 1 to 1 correspondence with phonemes. I'll admit that may have changed since my school days, even the RA will make a change every twenty years or so (probably when they go in to change the mummies' bandages).

The only accent that Spanish recognizes is the ´, which literally accents a syllable's vowel. Of course, the only way to regulate a strict grammar as in Spanish is with exceptions and special cases... :/ vg the g and c have two different sounds each.

Post-colonial issues here: in the 60s the language oficially changed name from Castellano to Spanish, at least in the former (American) colonies, with Basques, Catalans, Andalousians, Galegos and others cheering on. Spain had to wait until Franco died. Now we'd need to get rid of the Academy, so the language can grow and diversify in accordance to all the different Spanishes that already exist (French is even worse...). I don't see that happening any time soon though.

Argentina? work or holiday? There's a nice case of a different Spanish, grown out of a mix of old forms with some Italian and bits and pieces of other languages. You can see that clearly in verb conjugations. Same in Uruguay (another variant of the same dialect).

Reply to post #33 (show post):
I think they changed that a few years ago, because while I was taught that "ll" and "ñ" were separate letters in high school, my prof specifically stated they were no longer considered letters. I don't quite understand why they would do that, but apparently it's possible.

Another special one was my professor proofreading someone's paper, and the student in question wrote something like "Soy ingles" and he had to explain that the student should write "Soy inglés" because the former student would make no sense.

I did take some French and it was awful because of all the different Frenches. I gave it up because the entire point of my studying French was so I could speak to my quebequois grandfather in French not realizing the huge difference between Canadian French and Parisian French. I was unable to understand him.

My husband is going to be there on rotation for the next six months, so he's going to have me come out to visit Buenos Aires sometime while he's out there. I was told to just stick to the usted form when in Argentina because their use of the voseo is very hard to follow because it's no where close to the tú form used in most other forms of Spanish. I've already been brushing up on my Argentine culture so I don't prove the ugly American stereotype as well as learning the local style so I don't stick out so far and hopefully don't get marked for scams as easily.

Then that's it, that's changed, about 100 years late... It's a result of the 19th century utopia of having a 100% phonetical alphabet (the perfect language with the perfect grammar). If you can do it, fine, but if not, it makes more sense to simplify/streamline and just have a rule list for diphtongs.

French and Spanish are ruled (and I mean ruled) from their respective language Academies, so even though you have a multitude of different dialects, what's you write, what you're taught in school, is the Academy's dialect and grammar. It's prescriptivist, authoritarian, and forces the majority to learn two dialects, one formal and one informal. And most will never use the formal one anyway. And a lot of children are taught that waht they speak is 'wrong' and 'uneducated', which doesn't make things easier for them in society. I think it may be a bit like what happens in the US with Black English, which linguistically is its own dialect (or dialects) but carries the 'uneducated lower class' stigma (I may be off base with this, I'm not knowledgeable enough in English dialects and the US teaching system).

Parisian is not fun... I love the French dialects, and the flavour of Quebecois, it sounds to me like an ornery dialect for an ornery culture.

'Soy ingles' would make no sense, a bit absurd (and would probably be a big hit with Argentinians), as ingles and inglés are two quite different words :D

The Usted form is very important, just as Vous/tu in French. Tú or vos should only be used with friends and family or people of the same age. as with all languages it's difficult as this is not grammar but social rules determined contextually. Simplest is Usted with all older people and wait until the interlocutor defines the context: if you get tuteada, then you can go tu/vos.

Another thing is to use ustedes for the plural, always, never vosotros - that's Spain or a castizo speaker from other LA country (e.g. Bolivians can sound a bit like that)

Argentinians, in particular porteños (those from BsAs), are a very loud and badmouthed culture, both men and women, another influence from southern Italian - if you've ever seen the BBC series Inspector Montalbano you'll know what I'm talking about, even though the English subtitling has been pasteurised a bit to spare sensibilities. Of course, this may not be the right forum for a list of the most used swearwords. Anyway, their use is contextual, and just as in English the same word can be used aggressively or as a term of endearment or, often enough, as an expression of loving exasperation

Yet another warning, don't be surprised by people calling each other (and you, if you become familiar enough) as negro/a, flaco/a, gordo/a (and their diminutives). These are also familiar endearment terms and have lost any disparaging meaning or correspondence to physical characteristics: you may be a skinny blonde and someone intimate call you Negra or Gorda - husband/bf, good friend, girlfriend, relative, in addition to any italian mamma or yiddishe mamele types, of whom there are many...

You can also get colorada or rusa, in case you are a redhead or Irish complexion - doesn't mean they think you're Russian, just Italian for redhead. Or Polaco/a: the most famous was el Polaco Goyeneche, old school tango singer, just because he had blue eyes and was somewhat light- haired (as his last name indicates, he was of Basque ancestry, definitely not slavic).

Of course, there's Yanqui and Gringo/a: they are situational too, may be disparaging or simply descriptive, if you don't like the person it's most probably disparaging. The descriptive use is common though, as there are not many good words for describing your nationality. It's always a sore spot as Americano/a describes the whole continent, not just estadounidense.

Well, this opened the floodgates :/

One last word, for the mo: try not to travel there in high summer. BsAs, just like Mexico city, São Paulo, and Santiago, becomes a cement oven filled with smog, it'll do wonders for your asthma. High winter is bad too, but because it's wet and cold, all the time, even indoors. Of course, I'm a bit biased as I don't particularly like BsAs, as a city, though I have good friends living there. It depends also on how long you're planning on staying, there's lots to do and see in Argentina/Uruguay, depending on the season.

Reply to post #35 (show post):
Don't changes like that always come late? People tend to stick to the same thing for either tradition's sake or because they don't like the idea of changing it all and will defend their position no problem.

I had no idea that French was academied as well; I knew Spanish was because of all the controversy of what the word "email" was should be.

What don't you like about Parisian? I found it to be very beautiful, but useless if I couldn't understand my grandfather. The quebequois accent is definitely very rough, but when you consider it originated among trappers, I suppose the roughness of the overall sound of it is understandable. I also love the food-based insults done by the quebequois. My great-grandfather used to call my grandfather "tourtier," which would always get a loud "mot zi" (mind you, I'm doing all the phonetically because all of this is orally told to us), so we only knew it was a foul word. It wasn't until I did research to figure out what it meant that I realized that somehow the word for "meat pie" is an insult; I still don't understand it, but at least we have an idea, right?

I had no idea the Argentines like absurd humor; that explains why my husband gets along so well there. He used to joke that any clock that was off by a few minutes needed to be broken because it was never right.

I'm familiar with that, and know that the only time the tú form is okay here is among friends, family, people of the same age, and service people; however, I don't understand why you wouldn't use the usted form on someone who can imbue your food and drinks with bodily fluids or otherwise make you sick. I remember my husband telling me not to use the vosotros because it's not like the French vous; it's the second person plural informal, which can be insulting in the wrong forum.

No, I had no idea that they were coarse with their language, but that explains why my husband always comes back using "fuck" every other word; while he's six hours from Comodoro-Rivadavia, I think most of his coworkers are from BsAs.

I have a friend who is Dominican, and am familiar with the ironic nicknames based on ironies in one's appearance. His nickname in his family is güero even though he is so dark that he has been called racial slurs reserved for African Americans by various white people.

My professor actually did explain not to describe ourselves as americanos in Latin America because they consider that not to be limited. We were told to use either norteamericano or estadounidense.

I think I'll be there either during my spring break or after school ends in May; I'm not quite sure yet. It's good to know that it's a bad idea to be there in the summer because I have 60% of the lung capacity I should, and that it's a good idea to pack a hat, scarf, and warm coat. It just gives me a reason to have my pea coat dry cleaned before going out there.

Hah! French is even worse than Spanish, as it polices vocabulary. There was a big flap several years ago when the government decided it would fine people in state television (among others) for using anglicisms instead of the correct French term :/

Cultural overtones, I don't like how Parisian sounds (I don't like how Stockholm Swedish sounds either), a dialect that works so hard at being cool and trendy, and it's too fast for my taste. Totally personal and subjective :)

I don't know if I could understand spoken familiar Quebecois (if we agree to reserve Canadian French as the urban refined version of Quebecois), as I'm not there to train my ear. Still, it sounds great and I love those expressions and turns of phrase, much like those of similar old countryside dialects and languages (Italian, French, whatever). E.g., the French songs by the McGarrigle sisters, among others.

Hmm, meat pie, right, sounds good, maybe I'll find a way to weave it into my next insult :D

Wordplay is an absolute favourite in the La Plata region, yes, and the absurd too. In this case, while there is an absurd component, I was referring at the associaton of ingles with the most common Argentinian swearword (boludo/a). It's so common it's becoming simply descriptive and less sweary. I've heard ministers using it (that'd be government officials, not parsons), at least on radio. And the President of Uruguay too, although he's a special case ;)

Yes, it's contagious, bad habits are easy to pick up, and fun too :D And they're loud too, all Italian sterotypes confirmed

I'd say that not using Usted with a service person is more a signal that you belong to better class. Just like your boss will call you by your first name, even though you're not allowed to answer with anything else than Mr or Ms Whomever. For me, that's a disrespectful habit (unconscious more often than not), no matter where or what language I'm speaking. If someone providing a service, like a janitor or waiter adresses me by Usted, I'll always offer the same dignity back, as it's a signal that I respect their trade and tservice. Things are changing though, and can get different at trendy places, restaurants or pubs - I remember once, not many years ago, a young waitress at a fine expensive place addressing me as 'what can I get you, corazón?' (that'll be the equivalent of the Cockney 'what'll be, luv?', certainly never heard before in the region outside of certain establishments)

By all means, do use the Usted form, even if it's in the 'wrong' context you'll get a pass for being a foreigner. Using tu/vos in an Usted context is certainly worse, and being a foreigner doesn't help, rather the contrary (because of the gringo thing, from now on also known as the romanis-ite-domus effect)

Yes, it's a pain, because we're so used to say American in all other languages, but hey, even using norteamericanos is doing a disservice to Canadians, who when travelling tend to be lumped into the category (until they say they are Canadians, very useful in conflict zones). Mind you, if we get picky, Norteamérica goes all the way down to Yucatán, so it includes Mexico too, why there's no political problem with the NAFTA acronym itself.

In some cases, as you say, it's ironic nicknames, and sometimes not even that ironic. I have a friend who's Gorda to all of us, always been since the 60s (she's not fat, but she's tall and big-boned). So much so that when her Swedish friends say María I have to turn around to see whom they're speaking with. On the other hand, what I mean it's not nicknames per se, but rather like saying dear or love, as in 'Hi, dear', or 'could you chop me some onions, please, love?'. I call my son negro in exactly that manner, and have friends who call me negro, or flaco or even gordo sometimes, whatever is the term they happen to be using more at the moment

Patagonia can get a bit nippy in May, and if you're small-bodied you should probably fill your pockets with stones, but if it's BsAs it 'should' be ok. As in any other region (except some places like Scotland and Bergen), it's impossible to predict autumn weather, could be unseasonably warm or cold, usually stormy. I don't know when spring break falls, but if it's around Easter, say March/April, that's the best period, still warm and sunny (mostly, hopefully). It may not be long enough for you though, and it'd be a pity to travel that far for just a short visit

Reply to post #37 (show post):
I know that the French are very prideful of their language and culture, but I had no idea it extended as far as fining people for using anglicized vocabulary.

My father finds Parisian French to be extremely throaty, so I think I understand where you're coming from now. He says it sounds like they're going to cough something up.

It sounds like I'll get on there well; word plays are always a good thing, and I often have trouble controlling the volume of my voice. I'm considered too loud by American standards.

Now I understand; it's the same reason I don't refer to my professors by their first names; I'm not their colleague, therefore I used Professor or Doctor (insert surname here) to denote my respect. It's also good to note that when I talked to the guy who replaced my water heater I did well by using the tú form when he used it.

I tend to be pretty good about trying to use proper grammar; there's a joke about one of the hallmarks of a neurological condition I have is an obsessive need to speak the Queen's English. My prof says the only thing that marks me as a non-native speaker is my incorrect use of gender on certain nouns.

For me it's logical to mark what country one is from when talking to someone from a continent with a similar name as the continent on which one's country is. I can't imagine a Swede telling a Swiss person they are European, so I don't quite understand why we would call ourselves Americans when talking to an Argentine or Guatemalan person.

So they like terms of endearment? I've become used to that as my professor has started to send mass emails to us in Spanish; he often refers to us collectively as "mis estrellas," so it doesn't surprise me that it's not just something that occurs in Mexico. I'm of Hispanic descent as well, so perhaps that's where my father's penchant for insult humor comes from.

I am small, but relatively muscular. I do, however, have a habit of being toppled easily, so I'll remember to gather stones to put in my pockets. Spring break generally falls in the middle of March so that it touches neither Passover nor Easter. I think my husband said he wouldn't like for me to visit at that time because he wants me to spend at least two weeks seeing the sights, so it probably won't be until May.

just kidding, stones in your pockets's just a running joke in Patagonia, won't't help at all. Just find a sheep and crouch downwind behind it :D

look, if you like, when you know when you're going, where and for how long, I can try to dredge some contact in archaeology. I don't personally know any archaeologist there, but a couple of people in academia and related fields who most probably can get me the contact. Just for a visit to a museum or institution, so you have personal contact for the future -- I know that the main purpose is being with your husband, not digging under the ruins of the Cabildo, but still, networking can be done at the same time

Reply to post #39 (show post):
Oh, I understand. My husband told me the winds have gotten around 70+ miles per hour while he's been out there, so I'll make sure to be careful if we go to Patagonia.

That would be pretty cool. My main purpose is mostly to work, and my husband told me that if I can find a job in the city I attend grad school, he will get a job there as well. We've been meaning to leave our state if not our country because we don't quite fit into the norms of our country and his parents drive us crazy. I also wouldn't mind doing field work because I intend on homeschooling my kids due to the horrible science programs in the majority of schools and would love to give them the opportunity to see things and study things they wouldn't get to otherwise.

Oh, right. I don't know about having a career and homeschooling at the same time. I never even thought about homeschooling... The school system is not much better in Argentina, outside private schools of course. The best bet for the kids' school and studying/working would be somewhere in Europe. Of course, there are some excellent private alternatives in Argentina/Uruguay, and fieldwork with an au pair is possible

In the meanwhile (I get you haven't got any kids yet?), I'll throw a couple of lines and see what bites, contactwise :)

Reply to post #41 (show post):
If we're still in the US by the time I have to do field work with kids in tow, there are great online schools that allow them to take everything at their own speed. I would definitely be interested in studying and working in Europe. I'm not sure if I'll end up in Argentina, and my husband said he wouldn't like to live there, but who knows what will happen, right?

I don't have any kids yet because I want to be as educated as possible so I can have a career while I have kids and properly educate said children. My husband and I were rather precocious as children (he was taking apart Commodore 64s and putting them back together correctly at age three and I was reading at a ten year old's level when I was five) and the public school system where we live doesn't accommodate kids like that. I also wish to be prepared to deal with educating kids who are going to question everything and possibly blow off their eyebrows when they get bored. Thank you for the help; it's greatly appreciated.