I think we all agree that it would be a shame for this community to be broken up. Aside from the ongoing discussion in the Bug Reports thread, there are various scenarios what to do about the current situation being tossed about currently in the comments sections of posts by MbD and Bookstooge, as well as a thread created by Cheri. Maybe we should consolidate our discussion in one place, though. From what I can see, thoughts run the gamut from

* exchanging blog URLs of our non-BookLikes blogs and following each other via the dashboard-style feed that many blogging sites (such as Wordpress and Blogspot) have -- and if you do have a non-BookLikes blog, please do share its URL in the thread created by Cheri (http://booklikes.com/thread/2553/non-booklikes-member-blog-urls) --

* to moving to another site with acceptable features (the agreement of a majority of those who have taken a closer look seems to be that The Reading Room is not a viable option, whereas aNobii, while a bit barebones, seems to at least offer a number of features we might be interested in; see threads
here http://bookstooge.booklikes.com/post/1453624/bookstooge-at-the-reading-room
and here: http://bookstooge.booklikes.com/post/1453956/bookstooge-at-anobii-com)

* to the idea to try and acquire control of BookLikes outright and run it ourselves: http://jenn.booklikes.com/post/1453784/ready-for-the-worst-case-scenario-sort-of.

So I thought we could probably use a central place where to put on our thinking caps and bring all of our ideas together. Please keep the conversation going!!

Whew! I didn't know how to do it!

THANK YOU.

I will be following this thread with interest.

Reply to post #2 (show post):
Not you alone ... :)

Reply to post #3 (show post):
You're welcome. :)

I just want to be clear, in case anyone comes in and sees us brainstorming/complaining/debating: I for one am perfectly happy here at BookLikes and I am not leaving. It's got everything (almost) that I want; which is why I fantasize about buying it - so I can keep it safe (and fix the damn librarian tools).

But as long as BookLikes management continues to be distracted and missing in action, I think it's a good idea to discuss options - just in case. Because it would be tragic to lose the community we have.

Reply to post #8 (show post):
Exactly. Frankly, I don't even think they're going to take much notice, which is sad, because up until the end of last year they doubtlessly would have. And like you, I've said before and I'll say again that I will have to be dragged out here feet first; I'm not going to leave on my own. In fact, if the outcome of this thread is a solution that allows us to keep the site AND the community together, I'll be absolutely thrilled. But if it should turn out that there is no future for the site, we should at least have options where and how to keep the community together.

Keeping half an eye on this while I consolidate my own database with the other 1.5.

Reply to post #12 (show post):
So do I, unfortunately. And even if it could be bought for a song, paying for the book import feeds (ingram is minimum of 10k a year I've heard) and paying for a programmer and a db designer/administrator would be pricey.

Wonder what they make in ad revenue...

I would be open to possibly going in on a buy-out if it's reasonable. Maybe we should have a point person try to make contact with BL mgmt or their lawyers to get some further information on their situation and obtain buyout info if that's an option they're considering right now so we can see if it's even feasible for us...

Maybe we should take a step back, first, and analyze what we really need / want / expect to keep the community together?

1.) It seems to me most of us have really taken to the blogging format, or could easily go on working with that format, though probably not everyone of us considers it equally important.

OTOH, blogs spread out all over the web are essentially an individual matter, even if we can follow each other via feeds such as the Wordpress "Reader." Also, even if you are using the Reader, it still takes visiting the actual blog in question in order to have a conversation (at least if you want to comment on a blog not hosted by the same service you are using, e.g. Wordpress vs. Blogger) -- and I, for one, have my hands full building up one blog; I'm not going to build up a second one using another service.

So one advantage of BookLikes (as well as, obviously, sites like Goodreads etc.) is that it creates a common interface in the dashboard here which allows us to communicate with each other all in the same place (and on BookLikes, only once the posts in question have moved further down the dashboard does the conversation move to the blog in question).

Is there a way to create such a common interface even without creating / joining a pre-existing website (Goodreads, LibraryThing, aNobii, yoiu name it)? I have zero experience with Bloglovin', but isn't that one of Bloglovin's purposes? Could we possibly make Bloglovin' work for us?

2. Another thing (obviously, with book reviews) is the matter of the book database. I suppose strictly speaking, in order to post a review no such thing is necessary; you just post your review on your blog, and you either include an image of the book cover in question or you don't. That (more or less) seems to have been the philosophy here on BookLikes initially, but it didn't even take weeks after we'd gang-joined the site until we were clamoring for consolidated book records, because the whole point of belonging to a book community is to be able to compare notes and see the reviews written by others.

And I agree, book feeds such as Ingrams don't come cheap. Then again, here on BookLikes we know that the only external links in existence ever since the (largely) consolidated database was created, are links to Amazon pages (or Book Depository, which is Amazon-owned). So obviously, in creating the database some sort of deal was struck with Amazon to only use Amazon book data / the Amazon feed, at least on the part of BookLikes themselves. That doesn't exclude book records to be created and edited individually, but for purposes of the feed going into the database, it's quite obviously Amazon and nothing but. If we really wanted to think seriously about making an offer for BL, that is something we'd have to factor in and consider whether we'd be comfortable with playing by Amazon's rules or not.

Question, though (and not being a software engineer myself, I really have no idea how "involved" this would be): Is there any way we could create such a joint database ourselves, by uploading and then combining -- hello, fellow librarians -- our individual CSV sheets / book data? IIRC, this is how Leafmarks initially started, when the site was still in beta mode: Jacqui and Emily May asked everybody to upload their own CSV sheets and, at the same time, very quickly introduced (a) the ability for book data to be combined and edited by librarians, and (b) the ability for further book data to be added by Leafmarks members. In hindsight, they probably went from beta to full public mode too quickly, because with the influx of a larger crowd came demands for a full, professional size database and even though Leafmarks was subscribed to the Ingrams feed and had librarian tools to dream of, that somehow always remained one of the site's Achilles heels.

But do we really need the sort of full-size database that you get with Ingrams or Amazon? (Including the data of all those conference reports (say, of the January 1995 meeting of the Chilean association of city mayors on the topic of jay walking -- and yes, that's a made-up one, but librarians will know what I mean), outdated technical manuals (Windows 1995, anyone?) and other stuff that nobody will ever want to add to their bookshelves, but which still clutters up book data feeds in a beyond-horrible way?)

In other words, does it really have to be "all or nothing" in terms of book databases or is there some solution in between?

And more fundamentally speaking: Do we just want to stay together as this particular community, or are we looking for a full-fledged website environment where we're part of a larger crowd?

I've called this the "Thinking Cap" thread, because I would really like all of us to take a step back and try to think creatively how we're going to go on. It seems pretty clear that there is no ready-made, one-size-fits-all solution. So I'm afraid we're going to have to come up with one ourselves ...!

Reply to post #15 (show post):
Bookstooge, thanks once more for investigating.

So in terms of websites, I guess it comes down to

* going to some place owned by Amazon, either directly (GR) or indirectly (LibraryThing -- and don't get me started on the "only minority ownership" of AbeBooks)
* going to some other place created with the idea of selling in mind first and foremost (Riffle, The Reading Room)
* or going to some place that, like BookLikes initially, needs a lot of work and input -- not to mention the type of site admin to be welcoming this -- to give us the tools and the environment we're looking for (Libib, aNobii)

... right?

Reply to post #18 (show post):
I guess if we ganged up on the site admins of aNobii and Libib, we could eventually make those work for us (we did it with BL, too, after all) -- assuming, obviously, that they're willing to listen to and engage with their members.

But if we want something tailor-made to fit our needs, without being dependent on a particular site's pre-existing admin and their willingness to engage with us (or, heck, to keep the site in business to begin with), we will have to come up with the solution ourselves ...

I'm at the point that if BL finally tanks that I'll just either go back to GR full time, or start a tumblr side blog for my bookish stuff, though neither option is ideal. I don't want a wordpress or other type of blog, I didn't like The Reading Room, and neither aNobii or Libib feel comfortable for me.

I'm sorry, I'm just really grumpy over the whole situation.

Reply to post #16 (show post):
Themis-Athena -- Much thanks for your analysis. It pretty much follows my own rather less organized thinking.

The points I'd like to add for consideration/discussion:

1. I like the BL blogging feature, and I like the way it can be personalized. I'm not sure what kind of resources that requires the site to have in terms of capacity and engineering/software. It's fun and it makes the whole experience more personal, which I think makes everything more fun. Users get a feeling that we're dealing with real people rather than just the text files that dominated GR, at least in the old days. But in terms of the cost of either buying out BL or setting up a new site, that has to be taken into account.

2. I totally agree on the database: There's little value or need for the stuff no one uses, like those hypothetical reports, and there may be much more value in avoiding feeds from Ingram (due to cost) or Amazon (control). I wasn't aware of the beginnings of LM, but uploading CSVs certainly seems like a good way to start, if that were the objective.

3. I signed up for aNobii yesterday. I added one book to my "shelf," and before I added any more, I checked out the groups, since that was a point often addressed here on BL when the question about GR arose. Some people stay on GR for the discussion groups and miss that function on BL. What I found on aNobii disturbed me, and it was going to be one of the first things I asked about anyway.

The only "discussions" I found on aNobii consisted of free PDF downloads of what appeared to be popular books. I don't know if they're pirated editions or what; at the time, my account hadn't been confirmed and it was late in the evening, and I just didn't want to get involved in yet another hassle at that moment. I'm going to do a blog post here with some screen shots -- if the items are still there -- and see what comes up. If aNobii is involved in anything like that, I'm not sure I want to be active. There was enough shady business on GR that got me into trouble.

4. GR is still the 900 pound elephant in the room, able to smash -- or just bury in poop -- its competition. The only way I can see for a competitor to make a real difference is to offer something GR can't or doesn't offer. BL does that right now with the blogging format, but the lack of other features may have been what held it back. I'm not sure about LM because I was never that invested. If BL or any other site were to be able to take the features GR already has and ADD VALUE to the proposition, I think it would be unbeatable.

5. #4 above is what draws membership. Membership brings revenue needed to maintain the site. I suspect there are a lot of ways to drive revenue that won't also drive away users. (One way might be two tiered membership, with a small annual fee to access premium features.)

6. It might be worthwhile to determine what is the most important feature, the #1 priority for most readers. Is it the database? Is it the blogging feature? Is it the customization ability? Then work from there.

~~~~~~~~~

My personal database is not particularly detailed, but I have about 25,000 entries in it, with about 2500 uncatalogued Kindle editions to add. Mostly it's author and title, with some publication data for the editions I own. It's not in CSV format, but I can probably make it that way, and I do still have my CSVs from GR.